The Gown discussion page

Well, I don’t know about you, but I’m certainly glad the fifth chapter ended with Spring on the horizon! Characters Ann, Miriam and Heather are all dealing with some pretty heavy stuff right off the bat. I could feel the cold in Ann and Milly’s house the morning the pipes froze and the description of bland, rationed food and a gray, dreary London certainly give a sense of post WWII-London’s troubles after the war. Ann’s loss of her brother and impending immigration of Milly to Canada are enough to cause a deep depression to anyone, not to mention Ann’s memories of her mother. How do you think Ann’s mother’s disposition has affected Ann’s outlook on life at this stage?

Interestingly to me, Miriam seems incredibly resolute for all the severe trauma she has experienced, not the least of which is being a “displaced person”, a term that I discovered from the online Jewish Virtual Library was used to define all the people whose lives were totally shattered by the events of the war. I’m looking forward to learning more of her story and that of Catherine, Christian Dior’s sister. Miriam had incredible pluck to go boldly into Norman Hartnell’s office in her search for employment…or was it desperation? Could you have done something like that in a job search?

Then there's the big leap forward in time to Heather’s story in 2016. Judging Heather's overwhelming reaction to her grandmother's passing, apparently they had a very strong bond. It was certainly an abrupt switch to be in the world of abundant grocery stores and debit cards. How do you feel about chronological jumps in fiction?

Speaking of the name Heather, I did a quick internet search on white heather. You might remember that a white heather plant in a pot was the gift to the embroiderers at Hartnell’s from the Queen for all the work on the gowns for the royal family’s visit to South Africa in 1947. I found a charming article about heather folklore and mythology on the Trees for Life website, a conservation charity dedicated to re-wilding the Scottish Highlands. Apparently it was the Victorians who promoted the idea of white heather being lucky.

I hope you will check back next week as we share about chapters 6 – 10. Before you go, I thought you might enjoy a newsreel from 1947 about the Royal Family’s official tour to South Africa 

I’m looking forward to hearing from you in the comments section!

I’m getting intrigued with the mystery of why Nan/Ann came to Canada and never shared any personal history prior to her arrival with her daughter or granddaughter. And Nan/Ann certainly seemed determined to keep it that way, brushing off questions from her granddaughter about her grandfather or life in England. Heather’s mother seems pretty stoic about it all, saying that people didn’t like to talk about living through the war (especially considering she probably didn’t get much background on her own father from the way Nan/Ann handled questions). I certainly can empathize with Heather’s interest in trying to learn more about her grandmother’s life, particularly with the mysterious bequest of a box of beautiful embroidery work from a person who never showed an interest in that needlework form in her daily life. However, a small shiver of dismay is also starting to build in me—Ann doesn’t seem like the kind of person to abruptly leave her life without a serious reason. Would you want to investigate a family mystery… or do you think that sometimes it’s best to let sleeping dogs lie?

The description of Ann’s excitement and the hubbub among the Hartnell staff following the announcements of Elizabeth & Philip’s engagement seem so very familiar today, don’t they? Especially when we remember that according to Forbes magazine, an estimated 50 million plus people in the US and Britain watched the marriage ceremony of Prince Harry and American actress Meghan Markle on television about 2 years ago now. Ann is definitely on Elizabeth’s team, it seems, as she hopes that the government would understand and allow for a proper wedding for the royal family’s sacrifices during the war. Are you a royal wedding fan, or do you find it all a bit much? For any of us reading who are on Ann’s side, here’s a quick look at some 20^th century British royal wedding highlights from Newsweek.

I found the roommate negotiations between Ann & Miriam to be very touching, particularly as this is where we suddenly learn that Miriam had been imprisoned at Ravensbrück. Ravensbrück was the only German concentration camp that specifically held women, and not only Jewish women but other female religious and political prisoners as well. If you might be interested in discovering more about Ravensbrück, here’s an informative article from Yad Vashem, the World Holocaust Remembrance Center. Learning that Miriam was at Ravensbrück gives me pause, and the biographical clues Heather uncovered in chapter 9 about Miriam being active in the French resistance made the sense of hope that Miriam was feeling about moving in with Ann all the more poignant. Learning to trust people again after living in traumatic and unimaginable circumstances must be incredibly difficult. In what ways does this bit of knowledge about Miriam explain her actions and demeanor so far?

I have a reading alert for week 4: we will be adding 2 extra chapters to our reading assignment and discussing chapters 11-17. I thought I would leave you with the lovely sounds of the Glenn Miller orchestra playing one of the songs Ann and Captain Thickett-Milne danced to: Fools Rush In. 

I hope you will check back next week.  I’m looking forward to hearing from you in the comments section!

One of my favorite characters in this book is turning out to be Walter Kaczmarek, editor in chief of Picture Weekly and potential future relationship for Miriam. Is this a great guy, or what! The shoe heel caught in the grate might have been a little too “meet cute” for my taste, but Walter and Miriam’s further interactions solidify my feelings that Walter is one of the good ones. He appears to be a bit of a foodie, he understands boundaries on the royal dress project at Hartnell’s and he’s a good listener. I’m not surprised that Miriam took him up on his offer of lunch after that first brief meeting and called him. What do you think she saw in Walter at their first meeting that encouraged her to call?

One habit I have when reading historical fiction based on true events is always wanting to know if something described in the story really happened or existed. I did an internet search for Walter’s magazine, Picture Weekly, which sounded to me a lot like the former Life magazine published in the US that some of us may remember. It turns out that Picture Weekly is not a real publication, but there was a weekly British magazine titled Picture Post publishing in this time frame that appears extremely similar to how Walter described his magazine. It turns out that a digital reference resource company for libraries and educational institutions called Gale holds the complete archives for Picture Post magazine. You can learn a little bit more about the history of Picture Post on the Gale company’s website and see if you agree with my hunch that maybe it was author Jennifer Robson’s inspiration for Walter’s magazine.

Miriam also reveals quite a bit more about herself in these chapters, and we learn about her and her family’s war experiences, work in the French Resistance and ultimately how she wound up a prisoner at Ravensbrück. Miriam is also starting to visualize a textile work she wants to create to share her story, a creation that we know from Heather’s research in the future is going to become an important work of contemporary art. What did you think of Ann’s response to her new friend’s story? Why do you think Miriam is choosing to communicate her experiences through art?

The loss of Heather’s job in late summer 2016 opening up the way to an impromptu trip to England was certainly convenient, but she did run into some roadblocks once in London looking for Nan’s old house and missing the exhibit of the Vel d’Hiv embroideries by one Miriam Dassin at the Victoria & Albert Museum. At this point in the story, do you think Heather is right in continuing her efforts to uncover her Nan’s past?

I’m getting concerned for Ann. After you tried calling a gentleman at the number he provided, only to brushed off by a female voice, would you have anything to do with him? Yet Ann lets Jeremy Thickett-Milne talk her into a meal and a future date. And she jumps into a cab before getting out a block later and walking to the closest Tube station when she leaves him. I’m not sure that these experiences are building a solid foundation for a good relationship and I’m finding myself wishing Ann would trust her feeling that it wasn’t smart of her to be taken in by him.  Have you ever gone against your instincts in a relationship? Did it work out positively or negatively?    

On the other hand, it’s great to see Ann confident and excited about her work at Hartnell’s, especially with the news that Norman Hartnell has been awarded the commission of designing Princess Elizabeth’s wedding gown. If you happen to be unfamiliar, as I was, with Mr. Hartnell’s source of inspiration you can view Botticelli’s painting of Primavera on the Uffizi Gallery website, in which one of the figures is depicted in a beautiful embroidered dress. I also came across an interesting post in a blog called The Court Jeweler about Elizabeth’s gown and veil that has some close up images of the gown, plus Hartnell’s design sketches of the dress and train. There is certainly a great deal of description in this part of the book, almost to the point of instruction, on the details of setting up embroidery work samples for the gown. Ann seems collected and sure of her talent and skill in these scenes—I appreciate and enjoy seeing this side of her. How does Ann’s work personality compare to her social demeanor?

Before we end, you might be interested in this clip from an exhibition at Buckingham Palace in honor of Elizabeth & Philip’s 60^th wedding anniversary in 2007. It includes a few moments of close-ups on the embroidery of Elizabeth’s train that brought to mind the samples that Ann/Nan had saved for Heather. The embroidery is just beautiful! Can you imagine focusing for 8 to 9 hours on such delicate work? 

If anyone is getting inspired to learn some type of needlework or improve on skills you already have, you might want to check out these needlework titles suggested by hoopla for book clubs reading The Gown while MADL branches are closed.

I hope you’ll check back next week as we discuss chapters 18-24. I’m looking forward to hearing from you in the comments section!

Wow—this was a pretty intense part of the book! Ann’s storyline certainly took a severe turn, and it explained my feeling of dread growing throughout the book so far about why Ann/Nan had so totally separated herself from her life in England after arriving in Canada. I felt all along that Thickett-Milne was bad news; he has been a really a very negative character for me. It almost seemed inevitable, but still so terribly sad, that something brutal was going to happen to Ann. Thank goodness for the friendship, love and support that Miriam and Ann provide to each other. Both of these women experienced trauma that they kept to themselves until they shared it with each other. How does the power of their friendship help them both?

I thought Miriam’s remark to Heather in 2016 to not judge Ann so harshly for not speaking of the past, for she had her reasons and it was normal behavior, interesting—particularly as Miriam went on to say how astonishing she found it that contemporary young people shared every emotional moment on social media. That scene brought back a memory to me of a family moment several decades ago that included my uncle-in-law, who served with 2^nd Marine Division in the Pacific Theater throughout World War II. In a discussion started about the movie Saving Private Ryan, this veteran was sincerely wondering why anyone wanted to know what happened in gruesome detail on D-Day. His thoughts were that the war in general was a terribly difficult event, that everyone had a job to do and did it and he would never want us to ever have to know about or experience something like that. Do you agree with Miriam that it was normal behavior back then not to talk about difficult events within families or relationships? Do you think that things have changed with social media?

Were you surprised that Ann kept her job at Hartnell’s after explaining how the supposed drawing of the gown was published in a disreputable newspaper after being stolen by Thickett-Milne? Thanks to Kaz’s discreet investigation and being upfront with Miss Duley and Mr. Hartnell everything worked out. To be honest, I found this resolution slightly unbelievable—but at this point I was also rooting for something good to happen for Ann out of this whole mess. While it may seem rather cloak and dagger that newspapers might pay huge sums for British royal gown details before the wedding day, it seems to have remained a problem for British designers through current time. This interesting 2018 story from Harper’s Bazaar tells of the plans for a second wedding dress for Princess Diana in 1981 in case details of her iconic gown had leaked.

In contrast with Ann’s terrible experience, I felt it was lovely to see Miriam and Walter’s budding relationship continue to grow in these chapters. Walter’s description of his friends Ruby & Bennet’s as his “family of intention” really struck a chord with me, as I feel it also describes Miriam and Ann’s scenario as well. Have you ever experienced a family of intention in your own life?

Did you find Miriam’s sharing with Walter of her complete story, including the loss of her family and the fact that she is Jewish, as much of an emotional release as I did? Walter responded exactly as I had hoped he would, especially with his encouragement for her to express her feelings through her art. I found a compelling collection of images of real art from the Holocaust created by artists between 1939 and 1945 online from the Yad Vashem collection.

Quite serendipitous that the college professor Heather connects with in London through her conversation with the employee at the Victoria & Albert Museum happens to be the grandson of one Miriam Dassin! A little over the top, perhaps—but fun. Plus, I think it will certainly provide some definitive resolution for certain character storylines. How did you feel about Heather meeting Miriam in person? I found it strangely satisfying to have Ann/Nan’s story somewhat fleshed out for Heather, even though, as readers, we were already informed. What do you think of Daniel Friedman, grandson of Miriam Dassin and Walter Kazcmarek? Does it seem surprising that Walter had such an impact on his grandson’s chosen career? In case you were interested in reading the entire Wilfred Owen poem, Strange Meeting, since Daniel only shared with Heather the three lines from his tattoo, it is available in its entirety on the Poetry Foundation website.  How do you feel about a potential relationship between Heather and Daniel?

I loved being along with Miriam, Daniel and Heather as they went to Buckingham Palace for the Fashioning a Reign exhibit. As always, I checked to see if this had been an actual event. Lo and behold, this particular exhibition was mounted from July – October 2016 in honor of the Queen’s 90^th birthday by The Royal Trust, which looks after the royal art collection and manages the public openings of the Queen’s official royal residences.  Not only that, but you can still explore the exhibition and view collection highlights on the The Royal Trust’s website today. To get you ready for your Buckingham Palace exhibition tour, enjoy a jump back in time with a sneak preview of Fashioning a Reign provided by Hello magazine from July 2016.  

I hope you’ve enjoyed the story so far and are excited to finish the book for next week by finishing chapters 25 through the Epilogue. I can't wait to hear from you in the comments section.

Welcome to the sixth and final discussion of The Gown—you made it! And Princess Elizabeth’s incredible wedding dress is completed as well, just in time. I loved that Miss Duley worked it out so everyone in the sewing department could do one stitch on a leaf applique on the train so that they could all say that they worked on the royal gown. Even better—this was actually true! Don’t miss reading the interview author Jennifer Robson did with Betty Foster, one of the four seamstresses who actually did help create Princess Elizabeth’s wedding gown. (It’s included in the bonus material at the end of the book) Robson also shared about her research for the book and meeting Betty Stone in a November 2018 article for Time.  How does the story change for you once learning that many of the Hartnell work details were true?

I thought it was quite clever the way author Robson had Ann and Miriam have different experiences for the wedding—one at the ceremony and one behind the scenes at the Buckingham Palace. I felt this allowed readers to get a full sense of the grandeur of the day in conjunction with a private family moment between Princess Elizabeth and her father. In the week 3 discussion I shared a video with clips that covered important UK royal weddings from the 20^th century onward. If you’d like to jump back in time to enjoy Elizabeth & Philip’s eventful day right along with Ann & Miriam, here’s a 1947 newsreel covering their royal wedding event: 

In the supplemental material, the author mentions that she didn’t want to tell the story from the point of view of Queen Elizabeth—that since she had no way to know the monarch intimately, Robson wished to remain at a distance. I often wonder what the royals think of the fiction that is written or filmed about them—I’ve read often that none of the current royals supposedly watch the highly popular Netflix series, The Crown. How would you feel if it were your personal life that stories were written about for entertainment?

The end of the book is also where we and Miriam learn that Ann is pregnant, and how she comes to the decision to make a clean break of it by moving to Canada. Societal norms being what they were in 1947, the decision seems understandable, if depressing. When Ann asks if distance is the cure, Miriam replies that it will help. Why do you think Miriam feels this way? As Ann finally departs for her new life, author Robson writes “She had cut the final thread. She did not look back”. Do you feel this was the right decision for Ann? For Ann’s daughter and granddaughter? Why do you think Ann set aside her saved pieces of the gown’s embroidery work for Heather?

Thankfully for me, Miriam and Walter have a happy ending and apparently have a long, enjoyable life together with their children and grandchildren. What did you think about Miriam including Ann at the Sabbath dinner in the first panel of her tapestry masterpiece, V’el D’Hiv? I was quite touched by that, and glad that Ann got to see it. I liked the way the author had Miriam, (seamstress turned textile artist extraordinaire), carry both the literal and metaphorical sewing motif through to the end of the story by weaving the threads of friendship and family back together through the sharing of her art. Miriam’s close connection with Heather in 2016 in conjunction with her tapestry retrospective brought some resolution to Ann’s story for me. Whether or not Heather and Daniel develop a permanent relationship, it was satisfying to me for Heather to get some answers about her grandmother Ann’s life. What did you think about how the storylines ended for Ann? Or Miriam? Or Heather?

What I always like to ask at book club, whether online or in person, is: did you enjoy the book? Overall I did enjoy The Gown – the historical accuracy and the poignancy of friendships made and lost resonated for me.  If you enjoyed Jennifer Robson’s writing style, take a look at an interview she did exclusively for hoopla about The Gown.  If you are looking for more titles similar to The Gown, hoopla has also pulled together a list of recommended next reads. Click on the titles below to see them all.

Thanks for joining the MADL Online Book Club for the The Gown! Don’t forget to leave a comment to let me know how you enjoyed the book. Mark your calendar for June’s Online Book Club when we will be reading the biography The Good Neighbor: The Life and Work of FredRogers by Maxwell King. I look forward to hearing from you in the comments section!